Sea Breeze

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Posts by Sea Breeze

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  17

  Watchtower Says Their Writings Are Part of the Bible and Are Essential For Salvation

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hard to believe, but it's true:watchtower december 15, 2008, pg.

  28 – “our coming to know "the truth‟ - the entire body of christian teachings that has become part of the bible - and adhering to it are essential for our salvation”.this is the same position of the roman catholic church.

  one of the pope’s titles is the vicar of christ.

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  Sea Breeze

  I just tested this link to dowload the entire

  The 1954 Walsh Trial Transcript

  By Court of Scotland

  It works and it's free.
• 
  17

  Watchtower Says Their Writings Are Part of the Bible and Are Essential For Salvation

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hard to believe, but it's true:watchtower december 15, 2008, pg.

  28 – “our coming to know "the truth‟ - the entire body of christian teachings that has become part of the bible - and adhering to it are essential for our salvation”.this is the same position of the roman catholic church.

  one of the pope’s titles is the vicar of christ.

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  2. 
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  Sea Breeze

  Wow.,,, thanks enoughisenough.
  
  Found this on Redditt after a quick search:

  If anyone has a link to the full transcript please post.

  The following testimony excerpts are from the Pursuer's Proof of Douglas Walsh vs The Right Honourable James Latham Clyde,MP, PC, as representing the Minister of Labour and National Service. The numbers following the quotations show the transcript page on which the testimony is found.

  HAYDEN C COVINGTON - Former Lawyer for the Watchtower Society

  Q. Is it not vital to speak the truth on religious matters? A. It certainly is.

  Q. You have promulgated - forgive the word - false prophecy? A. We have. I do not think we have promulgated false prophecy, there have been statements that were erroneous, that is the way I put it, and mistaken.

  Q. It was promulgated as a matter which must be believed by all members of Jehovah's witnesses that the Lord's Second Coming took place in 1874?

  (A short discussion of evidence given by Fred W Franz about 1874 takes place here.)

  Q. That was the publication of false prophecy? A. That was the publication of a false prophecy, it was a false statement or an erroneous statement in fulfillment of a prophecy that was false or erroneous.

  Q. And that had to be believed by the whole of Jehovah's Witnesses? A. Yes, because you must understand, we must have unity, we cannot have disunity with a lot of people going every way, an army is supposed to march in step.

  Q. Back to the point now, a false prophecy was promulgated? A. I agree to that.

  Q. It had to be accepted by Jehovah's witnesses? A. That is correct.

  Q. If a member of Jehovah's witnesses took the view himself that that prophecy was wrong, and said so, would he be disfellowshipped? A. Yes, if he said so, and kept on persisting in creating trouble, because if the whole organisation believes one thing, even though it be erroneous, and somebody else starts on his own trying to put his ideas across, then there is a disunity and trouble, there cannot be harmony, there cannot be marching ...... Our purpose is to have unity.

  Q. Unity at all costs? A. Unity at all costs, because we believe and are sure that Jehovah God is using our organisation,the governing body of our organisation, to direct it, even though mistakes are made from time to time.

  Q. A unity based on an enforced acceptance of false prophecy? A. That is conceded to be true.

  Q. And the person who expresses his view, as you say, that it was wrong, and was disfellowshipped, would be in breach of the covenant, if he was baptised? A. That is correct.

  Q. And as you said yesterday expressly, would be worthy of death? A. I think....

  Q. Would you say yes or no? A. I will answer yes, unhesitatingly.

  Q. Do you call that religion? A. It certainly is.

  Q. Do you call that Christianity? A. I certainly do.

  PP. 345-348

  So, there you go. If you disagree with the WT, even a WT false prophecy, you are worthy of death.

  
  
• 
  17

  Watchtower Says Their Writings Are Part of the Bible and Are Essential For Salvation

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hard to believe, but it's true:watchtower december 15, 2008, pg.

  28 – “our coming to know "the truth‟ - the entire body of christian teachings that has become part of the bible - and adhering to it are essential for our salvation”.this is the same position of the roman catholic church.

  one of the pope’s titles is the vicar of christ.

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  Sea Breeze

  Every JW knows that the term "The Truth" is a code phrase for the organization and their publications. Outsiders wouldn't catch it. But, I believe it is clear that the WT is placing their own writings at the same level as the bible here.
  
  If I was an active JW, that is how I would have interpreted that statement.
• 
  17

  Watchtower Says Their Writings Are Part of the Bible and Are Essential For Salvation

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hard to believe, but it's true:watchtower december 15, 2008, pg.

  28 – “our coming to know "the truth‟ - the entire body of christian teachings that has become part of the bible - and adhering to it are essential for our salvation”.this is the same position of the roman catholic church.

  one of the pope’s titles is the vicar of christ.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Sea Breeze

  The problem with viewing Watchtower's writings being part of the bible is that eventually you have to rip out old pages from the "bible".

  In 1981, anyone that felt the Slave did not include ALL the 144,000 were described as indulging in "self-deception".

  "The objectors may argue that not all of Christ's anointed disciples have a share in preparing the spiritual food, so that perhaps the "slave" pictures only the leading ones, and the "domestics" those they serve in the congregation.
  
  There is no point in trying to force an interpretation of the parable. Self-deception is of no benefit and is spiritually damaging. ... Thus we see a clear Scriptural basis for saying that all anointed followers of Christ Jesus make up God's "servant," with Jesus as its Master." Watchtower 1981 Mar 1 pp.24-26

  But just a few years later, what was once self-deception and "part of the bible" had to be ripped out when they said just the opposite and claimed the GB were the F&DS.

  ""Who Really Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?"
  
  ... From 1919 on, there has always been a small group of anointed Christians at the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses. They have supervised our worldwide preaching work and have been directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritual food. In recent years, that group has been closely identified with the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses." 2012 Annual meeting jw.org 10th Nov 2012.
• 
  17

  Watchtower Says Their Writings Are Part of the Bible and Are Essential For Salvation

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hard to believe, but it's true:watchtower december 15, 2008, pg.

  28 – “our coming to know "the truth‟ - the entire body of christian teachings that has become part of the bible - and adhering to it are essential for our salvation”.this is the same position of the roman catholic church.

  one of the pope’s titles is the vicar of christ.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  Hard to believe, but it's true:
  
  Watchtower December 15, 2008, pg. 28 – “Our coming to know "the truth‟ - the entire body of Christian teachings that has become part of the Bible - and adhering to it are essential for our salvation”.
  
  This is the same position of the Roman Catholic Church.
  
  One of the Pope’s titles is the Vicar of Christ. The word vicar comes from the Latin word vicarius meaning substitution. The on-line version of the Pocket Catholic Dictionary defines the Vicar of Christ as: “The Pope, visible head of the Church on earth, acting for and in the place of Christ”.
  
  

  1994 Catholic Catechism Paragraph # 82 - As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the Holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.

  
  The Roman Catholic Church demands their own traditions be revered as if they are the word of God. Of course these traditions include naming Mary as Co-Mediator with Christ.
  
  The Watchtower treats the Governing Body as a co-mediator just as the RCC names Mary as one.
  
  Both organizations blasphemously teach that there is no salvation outside of their church.
  
  Interesting correlation isn't it?
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  30

  Jehovah's Witnesses and Mental Health

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this psychiatrist makes sense to me.. https://youtu.be/l5wcqc6m-gi.

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  Sea Breeze

  Bergman is a former Jehovah's Witness elder with six university degrees. Really smart man. He grew up in it, but caught on the the grift early on while still young.
  
  He is one of the most fascinatiing former JW's out there.
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  76

  Scriptures That Don’t Fit WT Theology

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here’s a couple good ones: a. jesus said, “come to me and i will give you rest”.. why did jesus command us to go to him and not jehovah?.

  why does the bible say that the name of jesus is above every name?

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  Sea Breeze

  people just want and got to have Jesus as their mediator just as they want to and got to go to heaven. It is all about their wants.

  
  

  @Rattigan
  
  No, it is not. It is a matter of obedience and survival.
  
  Jesus is Mediator of the New Covenant... the one that is "for forgiveness of sins" described in Mt. 26: 27-28

  ---

  When we accept Jesus and his offer of forgiveness in the NC, we have a righteous standing before God. It is called Justification. The WT teaches that their members cannot be Justified. This is the problem and why it is such a BIG DEAL.

  ---

  Romans 5: 9 - having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

  ---

  This scripture plainly says that you must be justified to escape wrath. JW's are not Justified. Their church prevents them from being Justified. So, according to the above scripture in Romans 5: 9, How do you personally plan to escape the wrath of God without being Justified by the blood of the covenant?

  
  
• 
  76

  Scriptures That Don’t Fit WT Theology

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here’s a couple good ones: a. jesus said, “come to me and i will give you rest”.. why did jesus command us to go to him and not jehovah?.

  why does the bible say that the name of jesus is above every name?

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  Sea Breeze

  @ LV101 - Satan ruled the world by means of the sin nature that was passed down. After Jesus died, a new creature appeared on the earth. One that had never before been seen. A human being with a dual nature. A fleshly sin nature AND a sinless spirit nature, hence the term born again.
  
  When I grew up, all I ever heard my family talk about was how Satan was in total control of the governments of the earth. They reasoned: How else could Satan have offerd them to Jesus?
  
  But here, after Calvary - scripture says Jesus is the ruler of kings.

  Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. - Rev. 1: 5

  To what extent he allows them to proceed with wickedness, or cuts short their reign and so forth, I don't know.
  
  But, one thing is for sure, Jesus is ultimately in total control.
  
• 
  76

  Scriptures That Don’t Fit WT Theology

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here’s a couple good ones: a. jesus said, “come to me and i will give you rest”.. why did jesus command us to go to him and not jehovah?.

  why does the bible say that the name of jesus is above every name?

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  Sea Breeze

  2 Cor. 5: 21
  
  For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

  But WT says we can't be righteous until we:

  1. Only listen to the GB and do everything they say

  2. Survive the GT

  3. And work for it another 1000 years in the Millinnium

  Romans 8: 1 - Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

  Romans 5: 1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
  
• 
  76

  Scriptures That Don’t Fit WT Theology

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here’s a couple good ones: a. jesus said, “come to me and i will give you rest”.. why did jesus command us to go to him and not jehovah?.

  why does the bible say that the name of jesus is above every name?

  .

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Sea Breeze

  Blotty,

  Please start your own thread. You are off topic.